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	<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?action=history&amp;feed=atom&amp;title=Noether%27s_theorems%2FExplainers%2FThe_two_theorems_compared</id>
	<title>Noether&#039;s theorems/Explainers/The two theorems compared - Revision history</title>
	<link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="https://invarians.org/index.php?action=history&amp;feed=atom&amp;title=Noether%27s_theorems%2FExplainers%2FThe_two_theorems_compared"/>
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	<updated>2026-10-21T12:52:48Z</updated>
	<subtitle>Revision history for this page on the wiki</subtitle>
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	<entry>
		<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/The_two_theorems_compared&amp;diff=6677&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>PMA Publisher: Published from the Principia Machina source</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/The_two_theorems_compared&amp;diff=6677&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2026-10-15T19:30:38Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Published from the Principia Machina source&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;table style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122;&quot; data-mw-interface=&quot;&quot;&gt;
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				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;← Older revision&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;Revision as of 19:30, 15 October 2026&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot; id=&quot;mw-diff-left-l1&quot;&gt;Line 1:&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 1:&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{DISPLAYTITLE:The two theorems compared}}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{DISPLAYTITLE:The two theorems compared}}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-side-deleted&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot; data-marker=&quot;+&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;ins style=&quot;font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;&quot;&gt;{{Noether&#039;s theorems map}}&lt;/ins&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Mathematical counterpart: [[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/Second theorem/The two theorems side by side|The two theorems side by side]].&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Mathematical counterpart: [[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/Second theorem/The two theorems side by side|The two theorems side by side]].&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot; id=&quot;mw-diff-left-l125&quot;&gt;Line 125:&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 126:&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;No mathematics is used on this page. The mathematical treatment is on the&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;No mathematics is used on this page. The mathematical treatment is on the&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;counterpart page named above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;counterpart page named above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot; data-marker=&quot;−&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;del style=&quot;font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;&quot;&gt;&lt;/del&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-side-added&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>PMA Publisher</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/The_two_theorems_compared&amp;diff=477&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>BFP Rauch: 1 revision imported</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/The_two_theorems_compared&amp;diff=477&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2026-09-10T13:29:54Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;1 revision imported&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;table style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122;&quot; data-mw-interface=&quot;&quot;&gt;
				&lt;tr class=&quot;diff-title&quot; lang=&quot;en&quot;&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;1&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;← Older revision&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;1&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;Revision as of 13:29, 10 September 2026&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-notice&quot; lang=&quot;en&quot;&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;mw-diff-empty&quot;&gt;(No difference)&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>BFP Rauch</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/The_two_theorems_compared&amp;diff=476&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>NT&gt;NoetherVolumeBuild: Noether theorems volume, initial import (B-19)</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/The_two_theorems_compared&amp;diff=476&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2026-09-10T00:00:00Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Noether theorems volume, initial import (B-19)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;New page&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{DISPLAYTITLE:The two theorems compared}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Mathematical counterpart: [[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/Second theorem/The two theorems side by side|The two theorems side by side]].&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:NT-F-06.png|thumb|right|360px|alt=A three-column comparison table. Rows: what each theorem takes, what it returns, where it holds, what happens when the field equations are imposed, whether a conserved quantity results, and whether the converse is proved. Theorem II&amp;#039;s conserved-quantity row reads none.|The first and second theorems side by side]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Two theorems, one paper, one page to keep them apart.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Side by side ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
! !! First theorem !! Second theorem&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
! What you feed it&lt;br /&gt;
| a symmetry with a fixed number of knobs, each one number for everywhere&lt;br /&gt;
| a symmetry you can dial differently at every point&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
! What comes back&lt;br /&gt;
| one flowing quantity per knob&lt;br /&gt;
| one relation among the equations of motion, per free shape&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
! Is there something conserved?&lt;br /&gt;
| yes, once the laws of physics are imposed&lt;br /&gt;
| no. Nothing flows and there is nothing to measure&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
! When is it true?&lt;br /&gt;
| always, of every conceivable configuration&lt;br /&gt;
| always, of every conceivable configuration&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
! What happens when you impose the laws of physics?&lt;br /&gt;
| the flow balances: a conservation law&lt;br /&gt;
| some of the laws turn out to follow from the others&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
! Does it work backwards?&lt;br /&gt;
| yes, with one case its author left undecided&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Nine tenths shared, then one step ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both proofs are the same proof until near the end. The setup, the nudge, the care&lt;br /&gt;
about which comparison you are making, the loss of the integral sign — all common.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then one step, and it is forced by the input.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A fixed number of knobs can be separated from each other, because each one is&lt;br /&gt;
independent. The relation falls apart into one piece per knob, and each piece says&lt;br /&gt;
something flows.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A free shape cannot be separated, because the shape and how fast it varies from&lt;br /&gt;
place to place are not independent of each other. Instead, the varying is traded&lt;br /&gt;
away, and then the freedom to draw a shape that fades out near the edges kills&lt;br /&gt;
everything that is left except a plain zero.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One theorem ends with something flowing. The other ends with zero.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Every&lt;br /&gt;
other difference in the table follows from that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Three things people say that are not right ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;The second theorem is the local version of the first.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It is not a version&lt;br /&gt;
of the first. Different input, different output, and a different thing happens&lt;br /&gt;
when you impose the laws of physics. Rows two, three and five of the table are the&lt;br /&gt;
check.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;The second theorem gives conservation laws for local symmetries.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It gives&lt;br /&gt;
relations among equations. When a theory with a local symmetry does produce&lt;br /&gt;
something shaped like a conservation law, that law is&lt;br /&gt;
[[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/Explainers/A conservation law that is only wearing the costume|empty]]&lt;br /&gt;
— its conserved quantity is built out of the equations of motion and reports&lt;br /&gt;
nothing they did not already say.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;General relativity is why energy conservation goes strange.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The rule is&lt;br /&gt;
about symmetries, and it works in both directions. General relativity meets its&lt;br /&gt;
condition. So does a symmetry Noether builds out of a logarithm with no physics in&lt;br /&gt;
it at all, which is exactly why she built it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Which one is the paper about ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both, and not equally.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first theorem is stated first, and it is the one that reached physics&lt;br /&gt;
textbooks. It explains why energy, momentum and angular momentum are conserved,&lt;br /&gt;
and it is genuinely famous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second theorem is the one the paper was written to prove. It occupies the&lt;br /&gt;
final section, it answers the question that Göttingen had been arguing about since&lt;br /&gt;
1915, and it turned out fifty years later to describe the structure of every&lt;br /&gt;
theory of every fundamental force.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This volume&amp;#039;s own view, offered as a view: quoting only the first theorem gives&lt;br /&gt;
you the corollary without the argument.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; You are free to disagree, and&lt;br /&gt;
[[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/History/What Noether&amp;#039;s theorem now means|the history track]]&lt;br /&gt;
explains how the other reading came to be the standard one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How to tell which one you are reading ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A short test, for anybody else&amp;#039;s account of this subject.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Ask what the symmetry is.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; One choice for everywhere, or a choice at every&lt;br /&gt;
point? That alone settles it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Ask what came out.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Something that flows and can be totalled up, or a&lt;br /&gt;
statement that a combination equals zero?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Ask what happens when the laws of physics are imposed.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Does something become&lt;br /&gt;
conserved, or do some of the laws turn out to be consequences of the others?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If an account never poses any of these questions, it is almost certainly giving&lt;br /&gt;
the first theorem and calling it &amp;quot;Noether&amp;#039;s theorem&amp;quot;, which is the ordinary usage&lt;br /&gt;
and is not wrong so much as incomplete.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Where the second theorem shows up under other names ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part of why the second theorem seems obscure is that physics met it repeatedly&lt;br /&gt;
without recognising it, and gave it a new name each time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Constraints, in the study of how to put general relativity into a form suitable for&lt;br /&gt;
computation. Identities among the field equations, in general relativity itself.&lt;br /&gt;
Gauge redundancy, in the theories of the fundamental forces. Ghosts and gauge&lt;br /&gt;
fixing, in the quantum versions of those theories.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All of these are the same theorem, met from different directions by people solving&lt;br /&gt;
different problems. The connection back to a 1918 paper was often not made at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;No mathematics is used on this page. The mathematical treatment is on the&lt;br /&gt;
counterpart page named above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>NT&gt;NoetherVolumeBuild</name></author>
	</entry>
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