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	<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?action=history&amp;feed=atom&amp;title=Noether%27s_theorems%2FExplainers%2FTrue_everywhere_against_true_for_real_motions</id>
	<title>Noether&#039;s theorems/Explainers/True everywhere against true for real motions - Revision history</title>
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	<updated>2026-10-21T08:19:47Z</updated>
	<subtitle>Revision history for this page on the wiki</subtitle>
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	<entry>
		<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/True_everywhere_against_true_for_real_motions&amp;diff=6678&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>PMA Publisher: Published from the Principia Machina source</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/True_everywhere_against_true_for_real_motions&amp;diff=6678&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2026-10-15T19:30:39Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Published from the Principia Machina source&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;table style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122;&quot; data-mw-interface=&quot;&quot;&gt;
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				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;← Older revision&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;Revision as of 19:30, 15 October 2026&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot; id=&quot;mw-diff-left-l1&quot;&gt;Line 1:&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 1:&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{DISPLAYTITLE:True everywhere against true for real motions}}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{DISPLAYTITLE:True everywhere against true for real motions}}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-side-deleted&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot; data-marker=&quot;+&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;ins style=&quot;font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;&quot;&gt;{{Noether&#039;s theorems map}}&lt;/ins&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Mathematical counterpart: [[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/First theorem/On-shell and off-shell|On-shell and off-shell]].&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Mathematical counterpart: [[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/First theorem/On-shell and off-shell|On-shell and off-shell]].&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot; id=&quot;mw-diff-left-l114&quot;&gt;Line 114:&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 115:&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;No mathematics is used on this page. The mathematical treatment is on the&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;No mathematics is used on this page. The mathematical treatment is on the&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;counterpart page named above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;counterpart page named above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
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&lt;/table&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>PMA Publisher</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/True_everywhere_against_true_for_real_motions&amp;diff=479&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>BFP Rauch: 1 revision imported</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/True_everywhere_against_true_for_real_motions&amp;diff=479&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2026-09-10T13:29:54Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;1 revision imported&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;table style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122;&quot; data-mw-interface=&quot;&quot;&gt;
				&lt;tr class=&quot;diff-title&quot; lang=&quot;en&quot;&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;1&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;← Older revision&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;1&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;Revision as of 13:29, 10 September 2026&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-notice&quot; lang=&quot;en&quot;&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;mw-diff-empty&quot;&gt;(No difference)&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>BFP Rauch</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/True_everywhere_against_true_for_real_motions&amp;diff=478&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>NT&gt;NoetherVolumeBuild: Noether theorems volume, initial import (B-09)</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/True_everywhere_against_true_for_real_motions&amp;diff=478&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2026-09-10T00:00:00Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Noether theorems volume, initial import (B-09)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;New page&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{DISPLAYTITLE:True everywhere against true for real motions}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Mathematical counterpart: [[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/First theorem/On-shell and off-shell|On-shell and off-shell]].&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:NT-F-05.png|thumb|right|360px|alt=A large outlined region labelled all configurations, containing a smaller shaded region labelled solutions. The Noether identity is annotated as holding over the whole large region; the conservation law only over the inner one.|On-shell and off-shell as nested regions]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Two statements have been in play in this volume and they are not the same&lt;br /&gt;
statement. This page separates them. It is the least glamorous page here and&lt;br /&gt;
probably the most useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Two kinds of true ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A company&amp;#039;s books satisfy a rule: what the company owns equals what it owes plus&lt;br /&gt;
what the owners hold. That is true of every set of books ever written, including&lt;br /&gt;
fraudulent ones, badly kept ones, and ones for a company that does not exist. It&lt;br /&gt;
is true because of what the words mean.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The same company made a profit last year. That is also true. But it is true only&lt;br /&gt;
of this company, in this year. Change the facts and it stops being true.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first is an &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;identity&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. The second is a &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;claim about the actual&lt;br /&gt;
case&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Noether&amp;#039;s theorems produce the first kind. Conservation laws are the second kind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What the theorem actually delivers ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first theorem&amp;#039;s output is an identity. It says a certain combination of&lt;br /&gt;
sensitivities — the leftovers from&lt;br /&gt;
[[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/Explainers/Nudging a path and seeing what changes|the nudging&lt;br /&gt;
page]] — flows without accumulating.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is true of any configuration you care to name. A chain hanging in a shape no&lt;br /&gt;
chain would ever hang in. A planet on an orbit that violates gravity. The&lt;br /&gt;
statement holds because of how the scoring rule is built, not because of what the&lt;br /&gt;
system is doing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then you add one condition: the system is obeying its equations of motion. The&lt;br /&gt;
sensitivities go to zero, the left-hand side of the identity vanishes, and what is&lt;br /&gt;
left says the flow balances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;That is the conservation law, and it arrived at the second step, not the&lt;br /&gt;
first.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The trade ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The identity is true of everything and says less. The conservation law is true of&lt;br /&gt;
real motions only and says something you can measure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Neither contains the other. You get the second from the first by adding physics.&lt;br /&gt;
You cannot get the first back from the second, because the second says nothing&lt;br /&gt;
about the configurations you threw away.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Physicists have names for the two situations. On the actual solutions is&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;on-shell&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. True regardless is &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;off-shell&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Noether has no such words;&lt;br /&gt;
she just says what she is doing, which is passing to the variational problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Three reasons to keep them apart ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The reverse direction needs the identity.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Running the theorem backwards&lt;br /&gt;
starts from the identity and reconstructs the symmetry. Start from the&lt;br /&gt;
conservation law alone and there is no route back.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The non-isolated case needs the identity.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; When something outside is feeding&lt;br /&gt;
the system, the sensitivities are not zero — they equal whatever is being fed in.&lt;br /&gt;
That case is available only because the underlying statement never assumed&lt;br /&gt;
otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The second theorem never makes the crossing at all.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Its output is an&lt;br /&gt;
identity too, and adding physics does not turn it into a conservation law. It&lt;br /&gt;
turns it into a statement about the equations themselves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That third reason is the important one. A reader who has only ever met the first&lt;br /&gt;
theorem in its on-shell form has nowhere to put the second theorem, and will&lt;br /&gt;
reach for the nearest available shape — a conservation law — which is the wrong&lt;br /&gt;
one. Almost every mis-statement of the second theorem starts here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The habit worth forming ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you meet a claim in this subject, ask which kind it is. True of every&lt;br /&gt;
configuration, or true of the real one?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Noether was careful about this on every page. Most accounts of her are not, and&lt;br /&gt;
the carelessness is not visible in the formulas. It is visible only in what people&lt;br /&gt;
then believe the theorems say.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How to tell which one you are being told ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A practical test, for reading anyone&amp;#039;s account of this subject.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Find the statement. Then ask: is this true of a configuration that breaks the laws&lt;br /&gt;
of physics?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If yes, it is an identity. If no, it is a claim about actual solutions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now check whether the author told you which. Most do not, because in the first&lt;br /&gt;
theorem&amp;#039;s case the two look almost identical on the page — one has some terms on&lt;br /&gt;
the left, the other has zero there, and everything else is the same.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;If an account never distinguishes them, it has silently chosen the second, and&lt;br /&gt;
its reader has no way to reach the second theorem from there.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A note on the words ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Physicists say &amp;quot;on-shell&amp;quot; for true of actual solutions and &amp;quot;off-shell&amp;quot; for true&lt;br /&gt;
regardless. The words come from an unrelated corner of particle physics and are&lt;br /&gt;
not intuitive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Noether has no such words. She simply says what she is doing: she passes to the&lt;br /&gt;
variational problem, meaning she now assumes the system is doing what the scoring&lt;br /&gt;
rule says it should. Her way of putting it is clearer, and it is a small loss that&lt;br /&gt;
the modern terms replaced it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;No mathematics is used on this page. The mathematical treatment is on the&lt;br /&gt;
counterpart page named above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>NT&gt;NoetherVolumeBuild</name></author>
	</entry>
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