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	<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?action=history&amp;feed=atom&amp;title=Noether%27s_theorems%2FExplainers%2FWhy_Noether_needed_a_third_symbol</id>
	<title>Noether&#039;s theorems/Explainers/Why Noether needed a third symbol - Revision history</title>
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	<updated>2026-10-21T09:15:16Z</updated>
	<subtitle>Revision history for this page on the wiki</subtitle>
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	<entry>
		<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/Why_Noether_needed_a_third_symbol&amp;diff=6686&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>PMA Publisher: Published from the Principia Machina source</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/Why_Noether_needed_a_third_symbol&amp;diff=6686&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2026-10-15T19:30:43Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Published from the Principia Machina source&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;table style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122;&quot; data-mw-interface=&quot;&quot;&gt;
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				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;← Older revision&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;Revision as of 19:30, 15 October 2026&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot; id=&quot;mw-diff-left-l1&quot;&gt;Line 1:&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 1:&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{DISPLAYTITLE:Why Noether needed a third symbol}}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{DISPLAYTITLE:Why Noether needed a third symbol}}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-side-deleted&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot; data-marker=&quot;+&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;ins style=&quot;font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;&quot;&gt;{{Noether&#039;s theorems map}}&lt;/ins&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Mathematical counterpart: [[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/Mathematics/Jet space and prolongation|Jet space and prolongation]].&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Mathematical counterpart: [[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/Mathematics/Jet space and prolongation|Jet space and prolongation]].&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot; id=&quot;mw-diff-left-l104&quot;&gt;Line 104:&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 105:&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;No mathematics is used on this page. The mathematical treatment is on the&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;No mathematics is used on this page. The mathematical treatment is on the&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;counterpart page named above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;counterpart page named above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
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&lt;/table&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>PMA Publisher</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/Why_Noether_needed_a_third_symbol&amp;diff=495&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>BFP Rauch: 1 revision imported</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/Why_Noether_needed_a_third_symbol&amp;diff=495&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2026-09-10T13:29:55Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;1 revision imported&lt;/p&gt;
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				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;← Older revision&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;Revision as of 13:29, 10 September 2026&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;4&quot; class=&quot;diff-notice&quot; lang=&quot;en&quot;&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;mw-diff-empty&quot;&gt;(No difference)&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;!-- diff cache key pma_cutover_20261020t051351z-soft_:diff:1.41:old-494:rev-495 --&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>BFP Rauch</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/Why_Noether_needed_a_third_symbol&amp;diff=494&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>NT&gt;NoetherVolumeBuild: Noether theorems volume, initial import (B-21)</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://invarians.org/index.php?title=Noether%27s_theorems/Explainers/Why_Noether_needed_a_third_symbol&amp;diff=494&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2026-09-10T00:00:00Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Noether theorems volume, initial import (B-21)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;New page&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{DISPLAYTITLE:Why Noether needed a third symbol}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Mathematical counterpart: [[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/Mathematics/Jet space and prolongation|Jet space and prolongation]].&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Noether uses three different symbols for &amp;quot;the change in something&amp;quot;. Most later&lt;br /&gt;
accounts use two. She never explains why she needed the third. This page gives&lt;br /&gt;
the reason, and it is a good one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The three, briefly ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They were introduced on&lt;br /&gt;
[[Noether&amp;#039;s theorems/Explainers/What happens at the edges|the edges page]] as&lt;br /&gt;
thermometers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;drifting&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; one floats downstream and records everything that changed,&lt;br /&gt;
including the fact that it has arrived somewhere new.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;fixed&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; one is bolted to the bridge and records the change at one place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;nudge&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; is not a thermometer at all — it is you poking the system to see if&lt;br /&gt;
it pushes back.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Two of these get kept in modern accounts. The fixed one is usually the casualty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The reason ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is what the fixed thermometer can do that the drifting one cannot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ask how fast a temperature is changing &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;along the river&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; — the difference&lt;br /&gt;
between here and a metre downstream. Now ask two questions in the other order:&lt;br /&gt;
first work out that difference, then apply the change; or first apply the change,&lt;br /&gt;
then work out the difference.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the fixed thermometer, you get the same answer either way. It is comparing&lt;br /&gt;
readings at the same place, so nothing about the comparison cares which order you&lt;br /&gt;
did things in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the drifting thermometer, you do not. It moved, so the two places you are&lt;br /&gt;
differencing between are not the two places you started with, and a correction&lt;br /&gt;
appears.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One of the two comparisons can be swapped with differentiation. The other&lt;br /&gt;
cannot.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why that decides the whole calculation ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Noether&amp;#039;s proof integrates by parts, over and over. Integration by parts is the&lt;br /&gt;
manoeuvre that moves a rate of change from one factor to the other, and her&lt;br /&gt;
argument does it dozens of times, sometimes to high order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Every one of those moves requires swapping a change with a differentiation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With the fixed-thermometer comparison, every swap is free. With the drifting one,&lt;br /&gt;
every swap leaves a correction behind — and the corrections pile up, each carrying&lt;br /&gt;
its own correction at the next step.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So the third symbol is not fastidiousness. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It is what makes the calculation&lt;br /&gt;
finite.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Her proof written in two symbols would not be a slightly untidier proof;&lt;br /&gt;
it would be an unmanageable one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The tidy modern version ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a device for handling all of this systematically.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Take a moving object and bundle it together with its speed, its acceleration, and&lt;br /&gt;
however many further rates of change you need. Treat the whole bundle as a single&lt;br /&gt;
point in a larger space. Then a transformation that mixes positions with speeds is&lt;br /&gt;
just an ordinary transformation of that larger space, and the bookkeeping about&lt;br /&gt;
which corrections appear takes care of itself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The device is called a &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;jet&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;, and it is genuinely useful in modern work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is not needed here. Noether did the bookkeeping by hand and both theorems come&lt;br /&gt;
out. This volume treats the device as its own subject rather than as something you&lt;br /&gt;
have to learn first, and the reason her third symbol exists is a better thing to&lt;br /&gt;
carry away than the apparatus that would have saved her the trouble.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The everyday version of the same distinction ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You are on a train, walking towards the front.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ask how fast you are moving. Relative to the carriage, a walking pace. Relative to&lt;br /&gt;
the ground, a walking pace plus the train&amp;#039;s.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both are correct and they answer different questions. Now ask how fast your speed&lt;br /&gt;
is changing — are you accelerating? Relative to the carriage, no. Relative to the&lt;br /&gt;
ground, only if the train is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The two answers can be worked out from each other, but the correction is not the&lt;br /&gt;
same at the level of position as it is at the level of speed, and it is different&lt;br /&gt;
again for acceleration. Every time you differentiate, you pick up another piece of&lt;br /&gt;
bookkeeping about the moving frame.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That is the drifting thermometer, and it is why calculations done in a moving frame&lt;br /&gt;
are fiddly rather than merely different.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The fixed thermometer has no such problem, because nothing is moving. Its&lt;br /&gt;
corrections are zero at every level of differentiation, forever.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Noether&amp;#039;s proof differentiates constantly. Working in the frame where the&lt;br /&gt;
corrections are zero is not a preference; it is the difference between a proof&lt;br /&gt;
that fits in a section and one that does not fit at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;No mathematics is used on this page. The mathematical treatment is on the&lt;br /&gt;
counterpart page named above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>NT&gt;NoetherVolumeBuild</name></author>
	</entry>
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